Where are all your defensive acts when Trump slanders and lies. You may ask me to provide “proof” that he lies, but I really don’t need to do that since he is so ept with proving that himself. After all, he is on every side of an argument depending upon who is receiving his statements.
In your description of “rude and crude…” you fell short of calling him evil but you forgot to mention that he is a dangerous, lying POS.
Evidence is in his divisive actions and behavior toward anyone who questions his logic or motives. He is ruining the party he represents, dragging them to ways they would not have dreamed of going, using fear tactics to keep everyone in line. Yes, dangerous and in my opinion evil.
As for your economic observations, the economic correction wa a gift to him from his predecessor and the fed. All he had to do is not screw it up, which he is in the process of doing now, just as several Republicans have done by the end of their presidency.
Okay… specifics, please. And, yes, you DO need to provide “proof” that he lies. Or at least solid evidence of intent to lie.
A lie is an intentional misrepresentation of something. Does he speak off-the-cuff, and say things that appear on the surface to be wrong or idiotic? Yep. Those are not lies. Trump HATES the teleprompter, and as a result often sounds like a bumbling, inarticulate idiot. Obama, for example, REQUIRED the teleprompter, without which he WAS a bumbling, inarticulate idiot.
So, yes, YOU made the indictment, YOU need to provide evidence. And it needs to be solid evidence, not, “his divisive actions and behavior,” because Obama was FAR more divisive than Trump, but the press loved him. Under Obama — presto-changeo — divisive became unifying, and lies instantly morphed into “deeper truths.” And I LIKED Obama! Who didn’t? But, then, I’m kind of a sentimental sap. Still, you and I both know that if Obama kicked a puppy, and spat in the face of a little girl, somehow the press would have transformed those both into great, noble, wise acts.
Where are Trump’s divisive actions and behavior? Name one, please. And, again, no sillinesses like “Muslim ban,” which was, obviously, not a “Muslim ban.” And specifics, please. And no things SPUN as divisive that turn out not to have happened at all — “good people on both sides” things — and no out-and-out fabrications (“dead soldiers are losers”-type things. And no distractions meant to turn the country’s gaze away from their own evil acts (Russia, Ukraine)… When you strip out all that dishonesty provided by the media, serious question, what is left that’s REAL?
I DO invite you to join me in condemning the media dishonesty, that put Obama on a saintly pedestal even before he was elected, and that decided that Trump was Satan even before HE was elected. I don’t mind bias… Lies and dishonesty from the press, though? No, thank you. There are far, far too many Americans who are willing to soak it up uncritically, as I’ve seen in numerous of these threads over and over again.
Or, if you won’t join me in that noble effort, at LEAST admit that you see the point of those who no longer accord the media any legitimacy, and who therefore are forced, as we are, to seek NUMEROUS other sources of information, which efforts ALWAYS show that the dominant media were misleading us all. We skeptics of the plainly silly notion that Trump is evil, not just a bull in a china shop, you MUST admit, have way more than enough justification for our skepticism.
Trump WAS given a political “gift” from Obama, in that Obama’s economy was sluggish at best, despite the media’s attempts to paint it as rosy. The fact that it was even sluggish was due to the vast resiliency and economic dynamism of the American people, not Obama’s policies (*cough*Obamacare*cough*) which did all they could to slow the recovery down.
On the other hand, OBAMA was given the political gift of the 2008 economic downturn, which got him elected, and which was on the way to recovery before he even set foot in the Oval Office. He then did his level best to slam the brakes on the recovery. Bush did that too, with his silly bank bailouts and “Too big to fail” nonsense.
Now, all TRUMP had to do was remove, or not fund the enforcement of, the really stupid constraints put on the economy by Obama. Hence, you are right, Trump does NOT deserve the credit for what was, finally, a healthy economy. However, Obama DOES deserve the blame for causing the economic torpor that helped Trump win election. And, again, the demographic group profiting the most from the economic upturn: black Americans.
As for “screwing up the economy,” it is the states doing that. Trump did the only thing he could do under the Constitution: he turned over the COVID response to the states, so you got 50 different COVID responses. Some mucked it up royally. Some did fine. And all points in-between. But the ONE immediate threat to the economy are the idiotic shutdowns, and the governors are in charge of those.
Now, finally, I don’t like Trump, for the reasons I gave above. But, he’s NOT evil and he’s LESS dangerous than, say, Obama — who was a genuine far-leftist ideologue, and whose efforts to put America on the road to Socialized medicine, threatened the lives and ability to obtain healthcare of all 330 million Americans. Thanks to Obama, we could reasonably expect to see an American Liverpool Pathway HERE — in 21st frickin’ Century America! — where those whose healthcare is deemed too expensive are left to die.
So, yeah, you DO need to provide REAL proof (not imagined, fabricated, spin, or fakery), since you made the indictment. This is America, Dude, not some third-world, tinpot dictatorship.
Now, where YOU get things wrong: I simply calls ’em as I sees ’em. I’m an observer, NOT a partisan. That’s where you and GJ, and others, get me wrong. Trump is not “my hero.” He IS, however, the target of a vast tsunami of dishonesty, slander and fakery. All that sludge makes it difficult for honest observers to get to the reality of all that is happening today.
As to your question about when I criticize Trump and what he says or does, I do that all the time. It would be weird, however, if YOU were to put something bombastic and hyperbolic out there — with the Trump is evil nonsense — and if I were then to respond with something like, “Oh, yeah? Well Trump did THIS boneheaded thing! So there!” When you say something I believe to be wrong, I don’t then need to address where TRUMP said something I believe to be wrong. That’s not the issue at hand.
Finally, Dude, I’m JUST FINE with making unsubstantiated, unsupported allegations against widely-known public figures. The assumption IS reasonable that others have heard it all before, and are familiar with the background and any supporting FACTS that might buttress the allegations.
However, if then CHALLENGED to DEMONSTRATE that you know the facts behind the allegations, you DO have a moral duty to do that. Else you suggest that you’re merely swallowing uncritically that which the media, who’ve long proven themselves to be dishonest fraud merchants, have been dishing out. Much of the idea “out there” that Trump is evil has EXACTLY that origin. I’m just offering you the opportunity to prove that you’re NOT one of the sheep the media assume the people are.
Please feel free to accept or reject that opportunity as you see fit, I’ll still be your friend, and harbor no ill will toward you whatsoever. 🙂
End of Exchange
The key passage in the entire exchange was near the end, and didn’t stand out all that much. It was:
“However, if then CHALLENGED to DEMONSTRATE that you know the facts behind the allegations, you DO have a moral duty to do that. Else you suggest that you’re merely swallowing uncritically that which the media, who’ve long proven themselves to be dishonest fraud merchants, have been dishing out. Much of the idea “out there” that Trump is evil has EXACTLY that origin”