Wading Into the Race Grievance Industry – Some Initial Findings (Part III)


As most of you have heard, our little think tank engaged the race grievance industry directly in the past few days. For our efforts, I personally was banned from the blog of a certain Abagond. However, I made  a point of copying the content of that exchange — it’s a big’un! — in order to use it later as illustrative content here. I was going to go grab a post or two to illustrate how these profoundly closed-minded people argue, but had gone back from time to time to view the posts on the blog after my departure therefrom. I figured that the post mortem after our encounter would be as interesting as the encounter itself. I was not disappointed.

As I mentioned before, for some inexplicable reason the women in Abagond’s universe had self-selected out of the back-and-forth, except to toss in drive-by snarks and disappear for a few dozen posts or so. Below is one such drive-by snark — after my departure from Abagond’s blog — that shows what I put up with when I was there. This was more than MB had to say just about in the entire time I was there. I assume that she wrote more this time because she knew there was no chance I’d respond. I have added inline commentary, in [red font and square brackets] to illustrate some of what I put up with. MB’s spelling is not great, but I haven’t changed it.

MB: Well thank God that crapfest is over. It was causing lots of confusion. I wondered for the longest time, if these post don’t apply, why get offended? When he made some statement on the Hitler thread about blacks being cannibels, [It had apparently passed over this woman’s head that I was making roughly the same point that Abagond was making, only in “racial reverse.”.] that didn’t offend me. Because I am not a cannibal. [Bingo! Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!! That’s why accusations of racism don’t offend me — because I’m not a racist! One would think these people would be able to put these things together! It’s a bit like accusing me of being short. At 6’4″, I’m just not at all offended by the accusation!] I believe x pretorious, was angry because these things struck a nerve. [Here’s the thing that they all indulged in: Reading minds. They had no possible way of knowing whether or not they had “struck a nerve.” But, they were willing to base entire arguments on the “fact” of what they just knew I was thinking. In this case, at least MB said, “I believe…” In the cases that I will show you, the assertion was “xPraetorius thinks [fill in unknowable thought here],” or “xPraetorius hopes [fill in unknowable hope here]”… ] To quote Sharina and my late grandmother, “A hit dog will holler” or “The guilty dog barks first. X praetorious,did a a lot of barking. [Or, it is to be hoped, the unjustly accused will protest! Should the unjustly accused black people during segregation and Jim Crow simply have taken it without complaint? Or should they have spoken up a bit? ] He started on Brotha Wolf’s blog, making problems, when Brotha Wolf did a post on Paula Deen. [To correct the mistaken MB, the person who confronted BrothaWolf was my colleague. Granted, it’s apparent that MB is not paying close attention, so it’s likely she didn’t read everything. Still, I did not “start on BrothaWolf’s blog.” My colleague here did. ] This was where I first saw his commentary, I felt bad for Wolf, because x praetorious was trolling the hell out of his blog. [Nope. My colleague was perfectly respectful of people at all times. She treated derisory concepts with the scorn they deserved, but she was respectful and polite to people at all times. ] Then he comes to Abagond’s blog and makes trouble. I knew it was going to be trouble. I get that there needs to be diversity of opinions [Trust me, the idea that “there needs to be diversity of opinions” is not something she gets. ] and we don’t need to be in lock step and have a herd mentality. [This herd has no desire whatsoever to allow dissenting opinions in!] I understand that. But x praetorious, had no desire to learn or understand. [This coming from a group, not one of whose members ever allowed the slightest dissenting opinion to sway their thinking, is rich 🙂 ] I hate when white people or anyone does that. When people are coming together to discuss their experiences,and whites dismiss that, I feel it is disrespectful. Even Randy, who is racist as hell, is a gentleman. [<– Do I really need to comment on that sentence? A gentleman racist? I guess the concept of “racist” has undergone some changes, eh? Not to worry! MB is ok with you if you’re a racist, just not if you’re obnoxious about it! So, you read it here first: Polite racists are just fine. Even the ones who are “racist as hell”! ** Sheesh! ** ] But x praetorious was arrogant and pedantic as hell, [Darn! If only I had known that to be a humble racist was okay with this crowd!  🙂 ] my eyes were glazing over trying to read his comments. Anyway, I am glad he is gone. [Her eyes were glazing over, I’m ‘fraid, because there were concepts more complex than “Look, Jane! See Spot run!” flying about.]

More soon! I’m just trying to keep up with the restless Abagondian herds since I’ve been gone! I’ll start tonight and tomorrow delving into the gold mine of material they gave me as I interacted with them over the past few days.

Don’t lose sight, my friends, of the real purpose of all this! Keep your eyes on the broadcast media!

— xPraetorius

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12 thoughts on “Wading Into the Race Grievance Industry – Some Initial Findings (Part III)

  1. It’s amazing. You continued to think you’ve been very respectable, and yet, you had a lot of people angry at you for sound reasons, you end up evicted from a blog, and you still think you were in the right.

    [gratuitous insult removed]

    1. @BrothaWolf: Thanks for your contribution. I’ve edited your post to remove unsuitable or nonsensical content that doesn’t contribute to the conversation. However, your post, though off-topic, is useful for another reason. Please see below.

      I maintain that all people who addressed a respectful, serious post to me, received a respectful, serious reply in return.

      I did re-read a section a while back and realize that I made a mistake. I had made a deal with “Omnipresent” that I would exchange only polite respectful posts with him if he were to maintain the same tone. At some point, I confused Omni with “TruthSeeker,” and when TS put in a moronic, gratuitous insult, I accused him of unilaterally “abrogating our agreement,” and responded to TS as tartly as he wrote to me. I had no such agreement with TS, so my accusation was incorrect, and I regret my error.

      However, I never responded to Omni in a disrespectful way, so that agreement remains in effect if he wishes to discuss things here. I am, however, banned from Abagondland, so I can’t apologize to TS there. 🙂

      You said:

      It’s amazing. You continued to think you’ve been very respectable, and yet, you had a lot of people angry at you for sound reasons, you end up evicted from a blog, and you still think you were in the right.

      xPraetorius:
      It’s neither amazing, nor even a little surprising that I still think I was in the right. You still think you were in the right. Are you even slightly surprised by that? If being banned is the only evidence one needs that someone was in the wrong, then we have come to a sorry pass in this country indeed! Would that mean that I could simply petulantly ban everyone in Abagonland from this site, and somehow that proves “they were in the wrong?” Wellllll, ok then! 🙂 (Just kidding: I’d never do that. It would take a lot to get someone banned from here. I will however, continue to edit posts to remove useless or inappropriate content.) Again, I was respectful and serious with all people who were respectful and serious with me. Those who snarked at me, got snarkage in return. That was only fair.

      One last quick point: the reasons everyone was angry with me were not sound ones. They didn’t like what I had to say, so they didn’t like me. Simple as that. They acted like spoiled brats who were used to being coddled and having their heads patted, and I went in there and treated them like adults.

      Best,

      — x

  2. Well, let me respond in a manner that you would probably approve. I think the whole notion that racism is not a huge matter in today’s society is nonsensical and can only come from a view completely sheltered from reality. To conclude that such blogs and movements are part of a leftist, race grievance industry is ridiculous, condescending, arrogant and illogical. Lastly, for one to not consider to take a hint of responsibility for the anger of others may be a sign of delusion and sociopathy. It is the same as acting like a spoiled brats. Not to mention to consider others as such when acting like one is a sign of projection.

    Here’s the deal: you may not think you were being disrespectful, but other people were clearly offended by it, and that is WHAT MATTERS. It’s not about how you thought you were. It’s about what you said and how it was said as being taken in as offensive and hurtful.

    Wouldn’t a good person listen and consider that what he/she said was hurtful and apologize? But instead, you continue to put all the blame on them for feeling the way they do. What does that say about you? Tell me.

  3. Brothawolf said

    Well, let me respond in a manner that you would probably approve. [My reply: Ok. Much appreciated.] I think the whole notion that racism is not a huge matter in today’s society is nonsensical and can only come from a view completely sheltered from reality. [My reply: Ok. I agree that racism is a huge problem, just not white racism. BW, I’m not saying that to be flippant. I think I made quite a convincing case that white people have been embarked on a long- long-time effort to remove prejudice of any kind from their thinking. Racism is a prejudice. You can call what white people have done in the past 70 years whatever you want — some have expressed it as purging judgmentalism entirely from their thinking. Look: it’s probably important to note that the removal of all judgmentalism from one’s thinking is not a good thing. We live by making judgments and choices that indicate preferences and biases. All creatures live that way. However you want to label or describe it, the result has been the rapid dismantling of the once mostly white power, economic and social structures, all of which used to dominate the U.S. I just don’t think you can (1) disagree with that assessment, or (2) pretend that a racist people — white people — could have allowed that to happen. Whereas black people seem to be united in their blackness, whiteness is just not, I don’t think, a huge part of the self-identity of most white people. Some evidence? Black people in the ’60’s started to say in a united way, “We want equality of opportunity all across America!” And white people pretty much shrugged their shoulders and said, “Uhhh…Ok. Here ya go.” Ten years later, a mountain of pro-minority legislation had passed Congress and been signed into law by mostly white Congresses and Presidents, representing mostly white constituents. ] To conclude that such blogs and movements are part of a leftist, race grievance industry is ridiculous, condescending, arrogant and illogical. [My reply: Not really. The net effect of the well-known fact that black people give their votes — at nearly 100%! — to the Democrat Party has the bottom-line effect of pushing the country far to the left, toward ever greater central government intervention in all our lives. You may not know it, but YOUR best friends are Conservatives, of which I’m one, who would get the government OUT of your life. ] Lastly, for one to not consider to take a hint of responsibility for the anger of others may be a sign of delusion and sociopathy. [My reply: Nope. I came under attack and responded. I’m firm on that, BW. I DID attack ideas vigorously, and will make no apology for disagreeing vehemently with anyone’s ideas. ] It is the same as acting like a spoiled brats. Not to mention to consider others as such when acting like one is a sign of projection. [My reply: BW: One simple question: What if I’m right? Should I just “apologize” because others don’t like what I say? ]

    Here’s the deal: you may not think you were being disrespectful, but other people were clearly offended by it, [My reply: I’ll say this very gently, BW — they were wrong. First: why on earth should anyone care in the slightest about the level of respect or disrespect I’ve shown them? I’m a complete stranger to all of them! ] and that is WHAT MATTERS. [My reply: We’ll have to disagree, BW. Much as I enjoy our back-and-forth, I don’t care in the slightest what you, or Abagond’s readers, think of me. And that’s how my opinion of YOU should be in YOUR lives: Unimportant. If you were to get to know me for a few years, THEN think I’m a total jerk, I’d be concerned. However, you don’t know me from Adam. Your opinion of me, and the opinion of Abagond’s readers of me, don’t affect me in the slightest. And, just as important, my opinion of all of you shouldn’t have even the slightest effect whatsoever on any of your feelings. Imagine that you’re a Computer Software developer, and I call you a lousy dentist. What would be your reaction? Easy: you wouldn’t care in the slightest’, cause, in my hypothetical, you’re a computer programmer! That’s how everyone’s opinion of everyone else in this entire exchange should be. ] It’s not about how you thought you were. It’s about what you said and how it was said as being taken in as offensive and hurtful. [My reply: I appreciate that, BW, but they were wrong. One more quick thing: When you all called me a racist and a liar, it didn’t bother me in the least — but, READ THIS WELL: I was NOT going to let you get away with it. It was an injustice that you shouldn’t be able to toss around without someone calling you on it. ]

    Wouldn’t a good person listen and consider that what he/she said was hurtful and apologize? [My reply: Yes and no. Yes, if the people who said they were hurt were actually hurt, and not manufacturing emotion. Again, I don’t know them from Adam. Nothing I could have said should have had any ability whatsoever to “hurt them” or their feelings. Not a single thing. ] But instead, you continue to put all the blame on them for feeling the way they do. [My reply: Yes. Your feelings are your responsibility. One hundred percent your responsibility. At all times. My feelings are my responsibility] What does that say about you? Tell me. [My reply: That I’m a mature adult, and that I give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re a mature adult. Look, BW, I like you…I really do, but that should have no effect on you either! This idea that others should have no control over your feelings is not a difficult concept. I taught that one to my kids very early on. I promise you I’m not trying to be condescending, but we Americans waste a whole lot of time and energy getting upset about things that ought not to bother us in the slightest. There are very few people in the world who should have the power to hurt your feelings. Maybe your kids? Your brothers and sisters? Your mom and dad? Your best friend? But that’s just about it! YOU own your feelings…don’t turn that control over to anyone under the sun except very few, and, of course, to Jesus Christ. And in His case, surrender control of your feelings entirely. However, there shouldn’t be anything under the sun that I could say to you that would hurt your, or anyone else’s, feelings. Not a single, solitary thing. It’s funny…somewhere on Abagond’s blog, he said that I “have a thick skin.” Not at all. I’m extremely sensitive, and very emotional, very passionate. If one of my kids were to say something cruel to me, it would hurt hugely. Why? ‘Cause they are an integral part of my life and my heart. But you? Or Abagond’s readers? Nope. No power whatsoever to hurt me. ]

    xPraetorius:
    @BW: Much better, and it’s much appreciated. I’ve responded in [bold and in square brackets] in line, in your text.

    Best,

    — x

  4. Ok. I agree that racism is a huge problem, just not white racism. BW, I’m not saying that to be flippant. I think I made quite a convincing case that white people have been embarked on a long- long-time effort to remove prejudice of any kind from their thinking. Racism is a prejudice. You can call what white people have done in the past 70 years whatever you want — some have expressed it as purging judgmentalism entirely from their thinking. Look: it’s probably important to note that the removal of all judgmentalism from one’s thinking is not a good thing. We live by making judgments and choices that indicate preferences and biases.

    Okay, you think white racism is not a huge problem. Remind me again. What made you make such a conclusion? Also, if white people as you say, have made a long effort to remove their prejudices, what research is provide to back that up, and has it been successful?

    To say that racism is prejudice is to ignore the power that it is. It’s an ignorant statement to regulate the impact of a ideal to a mere definition of disliking someone for simple reasons. Such a reply can only state one’s ignorance as to the reality of what racism is, and it’s delusional to consider it as the only viable definition one will accept.

    xPrae, you seem to constantly assert that what blogs like Abagond and my own deal with white racism in the pre-Civil Rights Era. That could not be further from the truth. If it was, and if white racism was no longer a factor, why would we have blogs in the first place? To conclude that we part of the so-called “race grievance industry” is foolish and disgusting. It means that the issue of racism implemented on the livelihood of POC is one mass illusion while believing that racism against whites is factual.

    xPrae, you mean to seriously conclude that white people are the victims of racism while blacks are not? You can not dictate that as fact because you’ve made that conclusion based on the kind of research you’ve used or haven’t used. You can not say that Abagond, myself and other anti-race thinkers are part of some “plan” make white people feel guilty if you have enough evidence to support it.

    Besides white people before and during the Civil Rights Movement have made similar comments when asked. And it was during the time where racism was overt, in plain sight. I admit that times have improved considerably for blacks, but racism against them and other POC are still issues in the 2013. Only someone in extreme denial would say otherwise.

  5. However you want to label or describe it, the result has been the rapid dismantling of the once mostly white power, economic and social structures, all of which used to dominate the U.S. I just don’t think you can (1) disagree with that assessment, or (2) pretend that a racist people — white people — could have allowed that to happen. Whereas black people seem to be united in their blackness, whiteness is just not, I don’t think, a huge part of the self-identity of most white people. Some evidence? Black people in the ’60’s started to say in a united way, “We want equality of opportunity all across America!” And white people pretty much shrugged their shoulders and said, “Uhhh…Ok. Here ya go.” Ten years later, a mountain of pro-minority legislation had passed Congress and been signed into law by mostly white Congresses and Presidents, representing mostly white constituents.

    Where did you get that information from that says that there was a rapid dismantling of the white power structure? And why on Earth would you think that white people would not allow it happen? It would make sense – common sense, that a people who would benefit the most from a system geared for their benefit would seem cool with it, even the more well-meaning among them.

    Black people demanded equality for years prior to the Civil Rights Act was passed, and even though it was passed, it did not magically erase the mindset of racism, especially the violent kind. To purposely leave that out to overshadow a significant point is intellectually and morally dishonest, in my opinion.

    So, what kind of minority programs were passed? What was their objectives? How much was spent into those programs? And did they work?

    The net effect of the well-known fact that black people give their votes — at nearly 100%! — to the Democrat Party has the bottom-line effect of pushing the country far to the left, toward ever greater central government intervention in all our lives. You may not know it, but YOUR best friends are Conservatives, of which I’m one, who would get the government OUT of your life.

    So, what you’re saying is that most blacks voting Democrat is the reason why this nation is far left? If so, let me ask you why do you think most blacks vote for Democrats as opposed to Republicans? Does that mean that voter suppression in Florida and Ohio was justified seeing as how most blacks vote Democrat and the right didn’t want it to swing in favor of the left?

    Yeah, I’ve seen how “friendly” the right has been towards my people. I just let their actions speak for themselves as seeing as how any evidence to the contrary seems to not go well for you.

    What if I’m right? Should I just “apologize” because others don’t like what I say?

    You see? Right there makes me wonder if you are genuinely in the dark or if you’re simply toying with us.

    Your responses have shown that you believe that you and only you are right. Why not ask yourself that question and ask “What if Abagond or I was right? I can’t speak for Abagond, but I agree with his posts, and I believe he is right. I also believe I’m in the right about my posts, especially the Paula Deen article.

    If you are right, you shouldn’t have to apologize for what you’ve said, but many of us don’t believe you’re right. Also, as stated millions of times, your tone was argumentative and condescending, especially when you made your first response in that ‘Hitler’ article.

    And if you ask yourself if we were right, why should we apologize? Why should we apologize when we no longer want to tolerate your abusive behavior and rightfully called you out on it. It makes me think that you are not as clueless – much less innocent – as you portray yourself to be when someone calls you out on your bad behavior. I’m starting to think more and more that you really are toying with us for reasons only you know. What makes you think me making such a conclusion is insulting as opposed to being the hard truth?

  6. @BW: First, thank you for your polite post. I don’t need you to be respectful — that would likely be dishonest — but you do need to be relatively polite, and you were, and I appreciate it. I’ve done as usual, and responded inline, below:

    Brothawolf said:

    (quoting me) Ok. I agree that racism is a huge problem, just not white racism. BW, I’m not saying that to be flippant. I think I made quite a convincing case that white people have been embarked on a long- long-time effort to remove prejudice of any kind from their thinking. Racism is a prejudice. You can call what white people have done in the past 70 years whatever you want — some have expressed it as purging judgmentalism entirely from their thinking. Look: it’s probably important to note that the removal of all judgmentalism from one’s thinking is not a good thing. We live by making judgments and choices that indicate preferences and biases.

    (BW’s response to the above): Okay, you think white racism is not a huge problem. Remind me again. What made you make such a conclusion? [My reply: I thought that I had presented quite a bit of evidence in the “Notes” thread, but I think that the following several undisputed facts are a good start on the way to a compelling case: (1) trillions of dollars in transfer payments, (2) HUGE strides in economic, social and political mobility for black people, (3) mountains of pro-black and pro-minority legislation in the U.S in the past 60 years (4) no appreciable public white resistance to any of that, with HUGE levels of white cooperation in bringing it about. ]Also, if white people as you say, have made a long effort to remove their prejudices, what research is provide to back that up, and has it been successful? [My reply: Again, the mountains of legislation and the trillions of dollars are objective facts. We don’t need any research to verify this. Actions come from decisions to act, which come from states of mind. Please don’t try to tell me that the election of Obama, the popularity of Oprah, the HUGE influx of black elected officials across the land, and more, all represent insidious signs of white racism. ]

    To say that racism is prejudice is to ignore the power that it is. [My reply: Racism IS prejudice. It just is. The concept of “racism” is a subset of the larger concept of “prejudice.” There are deeply offensive prejudices (racism, for example), and perfectly innocent and benign prejudices (a preference that our child’s spouse be a “nice person.”) ] It’s an ignorant statement to regulate the impact of a ideal to a mere definition of disliking someone for simple reasons. [My reply: I don’t understand this. ] Such a reply can only state one’s ignorance as to the reality of what racism is, and it’s delusional to consider it as the only viable definition one will accept. [My reply: We have to agree on what it is that we are debating, or else we’re just talking past each other. You can disagree with my definition of racism all you want, but that is the one I’m using. I’m under no delusions as to what racism is. I am NOT, however, going to pretend that it’s merely “whatever you — or Abagond — choose to call it.” At that point, I would be entrusting the very definition of racism to those who call themselves racists! ]

    xPrae, you seem to constantly assert that what blogs like Abagond and my own deal with white racism in the pre-Civil Rights Era. [My reply: It IS what it seems like, after all. ] That could not be further from the truth. If it was, and if white racism was no longer a factor, why would we have blogs in the first place? [My reply: Then is my having a blog proof that there is NO white racism? BW: I believe very strongly that you are COMPLETELY SINCERE in your beliefs. You may say something sarcastic like, “How very big of you!” but that is more than you and the others were EVER willing to concede for me. To the contrary, the accusations of “Liar!” from you and many, many others were numerous. ] To conclude that we part of the so-called “race grievance industry” is foolish and disgusting. [My reply: I accept that you believe this. I believe you are incorrect. ] It means that the issue of racism implemented on the livelihood of POC is one mass illusion while believing that racism against whites is factual. [My reply: My premise is subjective — one cannot measure the feelings of ANY population, either white or black, with any certainty — my EVIDENCE was both factual and subjective. YOU said you are a racist. I believe you were sincere when you said this. Abagond said that HE’s a racist. I believe he was sincere when he said that. Are you and he alone in your beliefs? If not, then racism against whites is very real, or factual. Just so you know, I believe that white racism is factual as well. Just that it’s no longer a big problem. It was tamed long ago, and is less of an obstacle than, say, the economy itself, or the tax structure, and other serious problems in America. ]

    xPrae, you mean to seriously conclude that white people are the victims of racism while blacks are not? [My reply: Nope. Never said that. ] You can not dictate that as fact because you’ve made that conclusion based on the kind of research you’ve used or haven’t used. [My reply: Ok…since I never said it, and don’t believe it, I never produced any evidence to support it either. ] You can not say that Abagond, myself and other anti-race thinkers are part of some “plan” make white people feel guilty if you have enough evidence to support it. [My reply: I WILL say that I’M much more of an anti-racism thinker and writer than you and Abagond. Why? I condemn racism from ALL racists. You guys are perfectly ok with being racists. I’m not okay with anyone’s racism. ]

    Besides white people before and during the Civil Rights Movement have made similar comments when asked. [My reply: They were wrong. ] And it was during the time where racism was overt, in plain sight. I admit that times have improved considerably for blacks, [My reply: I believe that is the first time I’ve heard you admit that, BW. Sign of your being a bigger man than I had thought. ] but racism against them and other POC are still issues in the 2013. Only someone in extreme denial would say otherwise. [My reply: Yes, I agree. I contend however, that racism against blacks is not a BIG issue. An issue? Of course! Just not a big one. ]

    xPraetorius:

    See comments inline in [bold in square brackets]

    Best

    — x

  7. @BW: Again, thanks for a very polite post. The tone is very much appreciated.

    BrothaWolf said:

    (quoting me):However you want to label or describe it, the result has been the rapid dismantling of the once mostly white power, economic and social structures, all of which used to dominate the U.S. I just don’t think you can (1) disagree with that assessment, or (2) pretend that a racist people — white people — could have allowed that to happen. Whereas black people seem to be united in their blackness, whiteness is just not, I don’t think, a huge part of the self-identity of most white people. Some evidence? Black people in the ’60′s started to say in a united way, “We want equality of opportunity all across America!” And white people pretty much shrugged their shoulders and said, “Uhhh…Ok. Here ya go.” Ten years later, a mountain of pro-minority legislation had passed Congress and been signed into law by mostly white Congresses and Presidents, representing mostly white constituents.

    (BW’s response): Where did you get that information from that says that there was a rapid dismantling of the white power structure? [My reply: I’m tempted to the sarcastic reply, but will hold off. How about a black President, first black Senator Edward Brooke, elected to the U.S. Senate in 1966 (Republican from Massachusetts), numerous governors, Congressmen, Senators, state officials, mayors of all the major cities for a very, very long time. Also, black people are very prominent in the media, Hollywood and academia, which are BIG factors in DETERMINING what the power structure will look like for the foreseeable future. Black people have had an important voice at the table for a very long time. ] And why on Earth would you think that white people would not allow it happen? [My reply: I don’t understand your question. White racists would NEVER support the dismantling of a system you say favors them. Yet, in all that has happened since, say, 1960, there’s been barely a peep from white people. ] It would make sense – common sense, that a people who would benefit the most from a system geared for their benefit would seem cool with it, even the more well-meaning among them. [My reply: Yes. That’s why whites’ cooperation in dismantling it seems incomprehensible if they’re all racists. A very strong argument indeed for my point.]

    Black people demanded equality for years prior to the Civil Rights Act was passed, and even though it was passed, it did not magically erase the mindset of racism, especially the violent kind. To purposely leave that out to overshadow a significant point is intellectually and morally dishonest, in my opinion. [My reply: Thank you for this, BW! My point has LONG been that our elected officials, far from being leaders, follow WELL behind the American public’s state of mind. White American public opinion had been in favor of equal rights for all since well before there was any legislation mandating it. This, by the way, has been the story of legislation in America for a very long time: A politician recognizes that an issue or state of mind has reached such a point that he can run on it and win elected office, so he does. It’s simple: Politicians win election by running on issues their constituents already support in sufficient numbers for him to get elected. The push for equal rights, for civil rights, came from the people, not from the government. ]

    So, what kind of minority programs were passed? [My reply: Welfare (in all its forms), Affirmative Action, Voting Rights act, Civil Rights Act, Gay Marriage, Redress for Japanese citizens interned during World War II, pro-American Indian legislation to permit tribes to declare themselves separate nation, anti-discrimination legislation of a thousand different forms, and a million more things. ] What was their objectives? [My reply: to redress past wrongs; prevent future discrimination, other more focused goals. ] How much was spent into those programs? [My reply: Trillions. I don’t know the exact amount, but it would be useful to find out.] And did they work? [My reply: Very very spotty record. Mostly unsuccessful, as are most programs by the federal government. The government is NOT structured to “help.” If it were, it would be called something like the “helperment.” The government is structured to govern; to be your boss; to get in your way if you act up; to prevent you from taking shortcuts that might endanger others and the like. There’s nothing in government’s structure that allows it to “help” effectively. ]

    (quoting me): The net effect of the well-known fact that black people give their votes — at nearly 100%! — to the Democrat Party has the bottom-line effect of pushing the country far to the left, toward ever greater central government intervention in all our lives. You may not know it, but YOUR best friends are Conservatives, of which I’m one, who would get the government OUT of your life. [My reply: Oof! Awkwardly expressed on my part! My apologies. I gather you understood, though.]

    So, what you’re saying is that most blacks voting Democrat is the reason why this nation is far left? [My reply: It’s ONE of the reasons. When every Democrat candidate for Senate or President ALWAYS starts off with an average 13% head start, yes, I’d call that a very significant reason. And, yes, the Democrat Party has been pushing the country to the left for decades. Whether you like it or not, you are a very strong de facto leftist. There are other reasons, but that’ll do for the moment. ] If so, let me ask you why do you think most blacks vote for Democrats as opposed to Republicans? [My reply: because they have been duped by the Race Grievance Industry. Just between you and me and the lamppost, black people have missed a bet. You give your votes to Democrats, then don’t do anything in the slightest to make them pay for that vote. Black people support school choice in HUGE majorities. Your elected Democrat officials take the teachers’ unions stance over your interest. How does that make you feel? Black people overwhelmingly support the concept of traditional marriage, and strong families. Democrats have adopted positions that have caused the near total disintegration of the black family. How does that make you feel? Democrats tell you that they’ll give you a phone and some food stamps and some money and some benefits…but they’ll make it nearly impossible for employers to hire ANYONE, much less you. How does that make you feel? I’ll tell YOU how it makes you feel: like voting for more Democrats. How do I know that? Because you FREAKIN’ do! Cut it the heck out, why don’t you?!? ] Does that mean that voter suppression in Florida and Ohio was justified seeing as how most blacks vote Democrat and the right didn’t want it to swing in favor of the left? [My reply: There was, of course, no voter suppression whatsoever in Florida. No suppression of black voters, that is. None whatsoever. Blacks voted in record numbers in Florida in all the recent elections. More importantly there were NO reports of anyone having the slightest difficulty voting in any of these elections. There were, by contrast, hundreds of incidents of voters voting several times across the country, as well as the ballots of some number of precincts in Ohio and Pennsylvania voting 100% for Obama. The odds against just ONE entire precinct of thousands of voters going 100% for one candidate are trillions to one against it. The odds against MORE THAN ONE precinct doing that are off-the-charts astronomical. ]

    Yeah, I’ve seen how “friendly” the right has been towards my people. [My reply: Example of right-wing hostility, please? Remember: KKK? Started by Southern Democrats. Jim Crow? Laws passed by Southern Democrats. How about Civil Rights? Well, that’s easy: Republicans were the first to propose Civil Rights legislation (Eisenhower), and Southern Democrats defeated it (before 1960). When it finally passed, Republicans voted FOR the Civil Rights Act at MUCH higher rates than Democrats. Look here for the documentation. ] I just let their actions speak for themselves as seeing as how any evidence to the contrary seems to not go well for you. [My reply: Ok. I’d advise you to look VERY closely at the Conservative program for America…it consists of a simple premise: the central government is too big in scope and reach, and needs to be reduced. Do you REALLY have a real problem with ACTUAL freedom? ]

    (quoting me): What if I’m right? Should I just “apologize” because others don’t like what I say?

    You see? Right there makes me wonder if you are genuinely in the dark or if you’re simply toying with us.[My reply: Why? ]

    Your responses have shown that you believe that you and only you are right. [My reply: Welllll…if you and I disagree, then I believe that I, and only I, am right. And YOU believe that YOU and only you are right. That’s the nature of disagreement. I wouldn’t support a point of view if I thought it was wrong. ] Why not ask yourself that question and ask “What if Abagond or I was right? I can’t speak for Abagond, but I agree with his posts, and I believe he is right. I also believe I’m in the right about my posts, especially the Paula Deen article. [My reply: Ok. And, I pledge to you, BrothaWolf, that if you prove to my satisfaction that I am wrong, then I will apologize. Good enough? ]

    If you are right, you shouldn’t have to apologize for what you’ve said, but many of us don’t believe you’re right. [My reply: Ok. I believe that you and they believe that. ] Also, as stated millions of times, your tone was argumentative and condescending, [My reply: Darned right! See the next post. ] especially when you made your first response in that ‘Hitler’ article. [My reply: BW: Look: Abagond’s post — whether he wants to admit it or not — made a not too subtle connection between white people and Hitler. Many of his readers then followed that up with rather strident insistences that white people (of which I’m one) had spent all of history marauding around the world, doing their level best to wipe out everyone they ever encountered with a different skin color. Should I have simply rolled over in the face of such accusations? Remember, nearly everyone spent a very long time insisting that I’m a racist and a liar, and an inheritor of white privilege and a latent genocidal maniac (check Anne’s last post on the “Notes” thread.) merely because of the color of my skin! I’m none of those things. Should I simply have rolled over and agreed? ]

    And if you ask yourself if we were right, why should we apologize? [My reply: Because you called me a racist — the most toxic accusation in America today. I’m not a racist. Furthermore, you have no evidence that I am, except that I disagree with you. Therefore you should apologize. ] Why should we apologize when we no longer want to tolerate your abusive behavior and rightfully called you out on it. [My reply: Because you were wrong, and you should be mature enough to admit it. Please see the previous comment. ] It makes me think that you are not as clueless – much less innocent – as you portray yourself to be when someone calls you out on your bad behavior. [My reply: I’m neither clueless, nor innocent. I hope I never tried to portray myself as either of those things. ] I’m starting to think more and more that you really are toying with us for reasons only you know. [My reply: Nope. I like you, BW. I’d NEVER toy with other people’s feelings. Nor should you EVER be in a situation where I COULD ever toy with your feelings. ] What makes you think me making such a conclusion is insulting as opposed to being the hard truth? [My reply: It’s not insulting, and I’m not insulted. However, you HAVE made a false accusation for which you had no basis, and you ought to admit that, and apologize for it. If I had done that, I’d certainly apologize. Actually, I think I did apologize several times during the “Notes” thread. You can search for the occurrence of the word “apologize” in that thread. On the first two of the 103 total such occurrences, I apologized to Sharina, and on the 7th such occurrence, I apologized to you. Apology is good for the soul, BW. 🙂 You accused me of being a racist; I’m NOT a racist…you owe me an apology. Simple as that. ]

    xPraetorius:

    Reponses in line [in bold and in square brackets].

    Best,

    — x

  8. I thought that I had presented quite a bit of evidence in the “Notes” thread, but I think that the following several undisputed facts are a good start on the way to a compelling case: (1) trillions of dollars in transfer payments, (2) HUGE strides in economic, social and political mobility for black people, (3) mountains of pro-black and pro-minority legislation in the U.S in the past 60 years (4) no appreciable public white resistance to any of that, with HUGE levels of white cooperation in bringing it about.

    And like I asked, what made you make such a conclusion and where did the info come from?

    Again, the mountains of legislation and the trillions of dollars are objective facts. We don’t need any research to verify this. Actions come from decisions to act, which come from states of mind. Please don’t try to tell me that the election of Obama, the popularity of Oprah, the HUGE influx of black elected officials across the land, and more, all represent insidious signs of white racism.

    I don’t think you understand what I’m asking for. I’m asking where did you get the information to support this, and how has this information made you conclude that white racism is not a big issue?

    How can the election of Obama, the popularity of Oprah, etc. prove that white racism is not a big issue?

    Racism IS prejudice. It just is. The concept of “racism” is a subset of the larger concept of “prejudice.” There are deeply offensive prejudices (racism, for example), and perfectly innocent and benign prejudices (a preference that our child’s spouse be a “nice person.”

    Racism is not just prejudice. As I’ve said before and as proven, racism is also the means to oppress a group of people based on color and physical group-cultural differences from the dominant group or groups. It has been documented by unbiased research, which means that it’s neither left nor right.

    We have to agree on what it is that we are debating, or else we’re just talking past each other. You can disagree with my definition of racism all you want, but that is the one I’m using. I’m under no delusions as to what racism is. I am NOT, however, going to pretend that it’s merely “whatever you — or Abagond — choose to call it.” At that point, I would be entrusting the very definition of racism to those who call themselves racists!

    If we both agree, there’s nothing to debate about. And I don’t agree with you because I simply have seen too much evidence to consider as “rubbish”, and as a POC – as a black man in America, it is something I should and have taken into heart. I don’t do it for the left. I darn sure don’t do it for the right. I do it because it has to be done.

    It is not about what I or Abagond calls it. It is what it is.

    Finally (for now), most people who are racist don’t see themselves as racist. Most are in denial. Most are ignorant as to their own prejudices. Most don’t see it as racism, but “race realism”…anything to not call themselves racists even when they are constantly caught red handed. And that is the core of this back-and-forth with you.

    I may come back to respond to more. Although, I truly don’t see any point.

  9. Brothawolf said:

    (quoting me): I thought that I had presented quite a bit of evidence in the “Notes” thread, but I think that the following several undisputed facts are a good start on the way to a compelling case: (1) trillions of dollars in transfer payments, (2) HUGE strides in economic, social and political mobility for black people, (3) mountains of pro-black and pro-minority legislation in the U.S in the past 60 years (4) no appreciable public white resistance to any of that, with HUGE levels of white cooperation in bringing it about.

    (BW’s response to the above):And like I asked, what made you make such a conclusion and where did the info come from? [My reply: BW: those are just a few of the pieces of the whole picture that make a compelling case for my premise. Those things I listed above are not disputed by anyone. If you and I are now going to argue, for example, whether the President is a black man, then you’re right we can’t talk to each other, because we can’t agree on what simple words mean. ]

    (quoting me): Again, the mountains of legislation and the trillions of dollars are objective facts. We don’t need any research to verify this. Actions come from decisions to act, which come from states of mind. Please don’t try to tell me that the election of Obama, the popularity of Oprah, the HUGE influx of black elected officials across the land, and more, all represent insidious signs of white racism.

    (BW responds to the above): I don’t think you understand what I’m asking for. I’m asking where did you get the information to support this, and how has this information made you conclude that white racism is not a big issue? [My reply: Where did I get what information? That Oprah’s fabulously wealthy? That the President’s a black man? That there have been mountains of pro-minority legislation? These things are all very well-known…including by you. If I were to ask you, for example, whether it’s legal in America to discriminate against black people in hiring, how would you respond? The answer is: “No, it’s not legal to discriminate against black people in hiring.” That’s a law. That’s legislation. There’s been a mountain of it since 1960. ]

    How can the election of Obama, the popularity of Oprah, etc. prove that white racism is not a big issue? [My reply: Alone, they don’t prove it, but they sure make it REALLY difficult to make the case that white America IS racist. Otherwise, there simply wouldn’t be a black President or a fabulously wealthy Oprah, or any of the other stuff that I’ve mentioned at great length in the various threads in which you and I have participated. ]

    (quoting me): Racism IS prejudice. It just is. The concept of “racism” is a subset of the larger concept of “prejudice.” There are deeply offensive prejudices (racism, for example), and perfectly innocent and benign prejudices (a preference that our child’s spouse be a “nice person.”

    (BW responds to the above): Racism is not just prejudice. [My reply: Yes, that what it is. “Prejudice” is the larger concept; “racism” fits entirely within the concept of prejudice — like a small ball completely inside a much larger ball. ] As I’ve said before and as proven, racism is also the means to oppress a group of people based on color and physical group-cultural differences from the dominant group or groups. [My reply: No, it’s not. Racism is a REASON for abuse, but it is not a “means.” to commit that abuse. “Isms” are belief systems. They are reasons for acting, but they are neither actions nor methods. Sorry. ] It has been documented by unbiased research, which means that it’s neither left nor right. [My reply: Nope. Never. Look, I see your point…you’re simply conflating racism with racist acts and racist systems and racist power structures.They’re separate items. However, if we accept your incorrect definition of racism, that simply makes my point for me. The so-called dominant group is no longer oppressing anybody. It’s pretty obvious that the barriers to social and economic mobility and to power are largely gone. No racist dominant group would simply have removed those barriers if they were still racist. ]

    (quoting me): We have to agree on what it is that we are debating, or else we’re just talking past each other. You can disagree with my definition of racism all you want, but that is the one I’m using. I’m under no delusions as to what racism is. I am NOT, however, going to pretend that it’s merely “whatever you — or Abagond — choose to call it.” At that point, I would be entrusting the very definition of racism to those who call themselves racists!

    (BW responds to the above): If we both agree, there’s nothing to debate about.[ My reply: I mean that we have to agree on what the subject IS before we can debate it. The subject is racism, and you and I don’t agree on exactly what that means. Until we agree on WHAT IT IS, then we can’t debate how much of it there is around. ] And I don’t agree with you because I simply have seen too much evidence to consider as “rubbish”, [My reply: Ok, then why didn’t you present that evidence? You gave me only hearsay, personal stories, assertions based on no logic or facts. I provided facts, images, thought exercises, hypotheticals and more. The ENTIRE picture that I painted, produced a compelling case for my point. ] and as a POC – as a black man in America, it is something I should and have taken into heart. I don’t do it for the left. I darn sure don’t do it for the right. I do it because it has to be done. [My reply: yes, you DO do it for the left. Every time you pull that “Democrat” lever in the voting booth, you work for the left. ]

    It is not about what I or Abagond calls it. It is what it is. [My reply: That doesn’t mean anything. I ACTUALLY produced a clear, strong case that it IS what I say it is! ]

    Finally (for now), most people who are racist don’t see themselves as racist. [My reply: And people who are NOT racist don’t see themselves as racist either. ] Most are in denial. [My reply: However, the non-racists like me are not in denial. 🙂 ] Most are ignorant as to their own prejudices. [My reply: That’s just not true. Most people know very well what their own prejudices are. ] Most don’t see it as racism, but “race realism”…anything to not call themselves racists even when they are constantly caught red handed. [My reply: Or YOUR definition of “red-handed.” For instance, there are a great deal of people on Abagond’s blog who think they “caught me red-handed,” or, more to the point, “white-handed.” I give YOU credit for seeing that I DIDN’T say anything racist. ] And that is the core of this back-and-forth with you. [My reply: No. The reason we are on this back-and-forth, is that you just can’t wrap your head around the possibility that I’m simply not a racist, and that I just MIGHT have a perspective that very much challenges one that you hold dear. ]

    I may come back to respond to more. Although, I truly don’t see any point. [My reply: BW: I welcome this tone of yours, and I welcome you back here anytime! ]

    xPraetorius:
    BW, BW, BW…there’s so much stuff you have simply misunderstood. I’ll respond inline in bold in square brackets again…the usual.

    Best,

    — x

  10. Okay, let’s just cut through the [inappropriate word deleted] cake. You don’t really have any sources to your claims, do you? Your only argument is that it’s true because I say it’s true and there’s no need for any research.

    Whether you know it or not, I can see through you. I am not so dumb as to take everything you tell me at face value no matter how many times you tell me how true it is.

    I honestly think that you really see Abagond and myself as impetuous immature children who need your “guidance” and knowledge, and that we don’t know any better than you or those on the right. So, you’ve categorized us as part of a leftist coalition against White America.

    I believe I know why you believe that white racism is no longer a big issue in America. And it is because you don’t see the black experience in sympathetic or empathetic ways. I think you see any and all forms of racism as much less significant as those who are victims of it because you don’t think that black people – at least the ones living today – are capable of suffering. That is why you dismiss any and all examples presented to you that state the case that white racism is still major today. You really don’t or can’t see it. And whether you know it or not, it has been researched. You may not think that the research itself proves anything, but you can not “prove” racism to white people. And yet, you tried to argue that there is racism against whites, which is set in a tone, it would seem, to be more imperative.

    I also see your need to be paternalistic to us. You desire to tell us what to think and sometimes feel. You see us as neurotic children who need to be lectured on what we should think. It’s as if you want our minds to bend to your will. You have a habit of twisting things to suit your view. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but that will not happen with me, because frankly, I’m too old to be babied by a total stranger.

    No one is trying to change how you think and feel. It’s obvious that anyone would get migraines in doing so. But what is CLEAR is that you have no right to control our thoughts through your “knowledge” of the world. You still have much to learn as do I, but I am not your teacher, nor do I want to be. And I really don’t want to be your student.

    This is my final reply to you, once and for all. In closing I will say that nothing you will say in your response to my last comment will make me come back let alone make me rethink my position. I still wish you the best.

    Adieu.

  11. Brothawolf said:

    Okay, let’s just cut through the [inappropriate word deleted] cake. [My reply: colorful image. ]You don’t really have any sources to your claims, do you? Your only argument is that it’s true because I say it’s true and there’s no need for any research. [My reply: BW: I specifically made claims that everyone knows to be true. Everyone knows that the President of the United States is a black man; that Oprah Winfrey is fabulously wealthy; that there have been thousands and thousands of black elected officials at all levels of government across the country for decades; that there are fabulously wealthy black entertainers, actors, athletes, media personalities, business people, and more; that the barriers to economic, social and political success have come down. If I were to produce sources, then you and I would start the dueling sources silliness. “Oh,” you’d say, “that’s a right-wing source!” And, if you were to produce a source, I’d say, “That’s not reliable, it’s a left-wing source!” I purposely used argumentation that needs no sourcing. My “five points” for example. You may not agree with them, but I guarantee that you do understand that they do represent a SURE way to give yourself an advantage in America. It’s the reason you and I both dress up for job interviews: to make the best presentation of ourselves we possibly can. The “five points” described nothing more than doing your best to make a good presentation of yourself to a job interviewer. Yet, you all jumped all over them as though I were demanding that you “act white.” NO, I was suggesting that you act serious! ]

    Whether you know it or not, I can see through you. [My reply: No, apparently you can’t. ] I am not so dumb [My reply: In no way are you dumb. You hold some really dumb ideas, but you yourself are definitely NOT dumb. I never suggested you are. ] as to take everything you tell me at face value no matter how many times you tell me how true it is. [My reply: Nor would I ever expect you to. However, you plainly REJECT what I say on the face of it, because I’m a white man. That’s every bit as bad as accepting what I say on face value. Neither contributes to great learning or wisdom. ]

    I honestly think that you really see Abagond and myself as impetuous immature children who need your “guidance” and knowledge, [My reply: Nope. But, you are both definitely in need of an updated perspective. 🙂 ]and that we don’t know any better than you or those on the right. [My reply: On this topic I know more than you. Surely not, though, on other topics. ] So, you’ve categorized us as part of a leftist coalition against White America. [My reply: Nope. You’re part of a leftist state of mind against America. If you are against any one people out of racist impulses, as you have admitted you are, then you are against all people. And, yes, every time you go into the voting booth and pull the Democrat Party lever, you absolutely are participating in the great “leftist coalition.” ]

    I believe I know why you believe that white racism is no longer a big issue in America. [My reply: Ok. What is it?. ] And it is because you don’t see the black experience in sympathetic or empathetic ways. [My reply: Absolutely wrong. And, as I mentioned before, I will not allow you to “read my mind.” BW: Why don’t you stop trying to psycho-analyze ME, and address what I SAY? You’ve spent this entire post trying to tell me that I’m somehow a bad person. But, even if I’m the worst person in the world, if my WORDS are true, then they’re TRUE. Why don’t you try to address what I’ve said, not who you think I am. You and most of the other Abagond readers spent a LOOOOOOTTTTT of time and energy on what you think MY character failings are. Ok…even if you were right about my qualities as a person, maybe what I SAID is STILL true! ] I think you see any and all forms of racism as much less significant as those who are victims of it because you don’t think that black people – at least the ones living today – are capable of suffering. [My reply: That’s just about the dumbest thing you’ve written so far. That one’s not even worthy of a response, it’s so dumb and nonsensical. But, that’s never stopped me yet! No, BW, I KNOW that black people are capable of suffering and have suffered a great deal. However, and I’m going to say this calmly, never has any black person suffered in the slightest at my hands, and I will not accept blame, responsibility, guilt or any other garbage that doesn’t belong to me. ] That is why you dismiss any and all examples presented to you that state the case that white racism is still major today. [My reply: Nope. Plainly not. Nor did I dismiss any examples of racism. Let’s look at this another way: It’s entirely possible that racism IS a big problem for you in particular, BW, but that still doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a big problem in the country as a whole. You seem unwilling to grasp a simple thing: YOUR problems are YOUR problems, They don’t PROVE that there is a greater problem in America. Your problems are NOT a good thing, and my heart goes out to you. You may have been mistreated by white people, and that is just plain wrong. However, you have not been mistreated by ME, so I won’t apologize for that. ] You really don’t or can’t see it. And whether you know it or not, it has been researched. You may not think that the research itself proves anything, but you can not “prove” racism to white people. [My reply: Research Schmesearch… Heck, Naziism was VERY heavily “researched.” Want research? Read the three volumes of “Capital” by Karl Marx to see how extensively the LEAST SUCCESSFUL economic system in the history of mankind was researched. ] And yet, you tried to argue that there is racism against whites, [My reply: You don’t REALLY read what I write, do you? I said that there is racism “out there” against all people. This is simply true. ] which is set in a tone, it would seem, to be more imperative. [My reply: I don’t know what that means. Are you suggesting that I’m saying that black racism is a bigger problem than white racism? If so, then that is correct. Black racism IS a bigger problem in America than white racism. Frankly, one of the biggest problems is that the majority ethnicity in America today seems all-fired bent on not passing judgment on bloomin’ anything anymore! Black people have one whole HECKUVA lot more to worry about in THAT than in anything else! ]

    I also see your need to be paternalistic to us. [My reply: Nope. I have my own kids; I have no need of 40 million more. 🙂 Now, your “friends” on the left, THEY on the other hand, think of black people as little more than spoiled babies who need to be coddled and pampered and told how wonderful they are and how they REALLY need to be REALLY ticked off at those nasty Republicans, and how they REALLY need to vote Democrat so they can get back at those nasty right-wing Republicans for all they’ve done. ] You desire to tell us what to think and sometimes feel. [My reply: Nope. The exact opposite. I’m telling you that, finally, once and for all, YOU NEED TO THINK FOR YOURSELVES! The FACT that you all vote at somewhere around 95% for the Democrat Party indicates that you are LETTING SOMEONE ELSE DO YOUR THINKING FOR YOU! Stop it. ] You see us as neurotic children who need to be lectured on what we should think. [My reply: Nope. Again, you cannot and may not read my mind. The only thing I’m suggesting that you do is THINK FOR YOURSELF. ] It’s as if you want our minds to bend to your will. [My reply: Well, then I’m sure going about it a strange way, eh? Treating you like an adult and all? Suggesting that you not permit ANYONE to tell you how to think? ] You have a habit of twisting things to suit your view. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but that will not happen with me, because frankly, I’m too old to be babied by a total stranger. [My reply: Thank you! You admit, FINALLY, that I’m a total stranger! That, therefore, any attempts to read my mind are doomed to failure, so you can just cut it out. ]

    No one is trying to change how you think and feel. [My reply: Wellllll, you’re sure spending a lot of energy in trying to convince me that I’m wrong. Yes, you ARE trying to persuade me to understand and agree with your position, and I’m trying to persuade you. Let’s not play silly games. ] It’s obvious that anyone would get migraines in doing so. [My reply: Doubtful. ] But what is CLEAR is that you have no right to control our thoughts through your “knowledge” of the world. [My reply: Thank goodness! If I WERE granted that “right,” I’d renounce it as soon as I got it! I’d never want that “right,” or its attendant responsibilities! ] You still have much to learn as do I, but I am not your teacher, nor do I want to be. And I really don’t want to be your student. [My reply: Finally! We agree on something! However, whether you like it or not, I HAVE been your student, and as long as you continue to communicate with me, I’ll continue to be your student. I never met a person in the world who couldn’t teach me something. ]

    This is my final reply to you, once and for all. In closing I will say that nothing you will say in your response to my last comment will make me come back let alone make me rethink my position. I still wish you the best. [My reply: That’s a shame. I wish you the very best too, BW. I hope we can still be friends… 🙂 ]

    xPraetorius:
    @BW: Again, many thanks for your post. As mentioned before, I do appreciate the polite, more serious tone. I did my usual [bold font, square brackets], above.

    Best,

    — x

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